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Thank you for this! Your words and the art you showed were inspiring. And validating, in a sense as well.

Genius!!!!

I love your definition of fine art photography, that is beautiful!

No.

Mungo’s meditation

Hmm. How does the Gospel of MO fair with the advent of Generated Imagery? I ask as there is no capture of what marks a photograph. And I understand, this was before image generators blew up. There will need to be a definition that is future proof, by setting a hard & fast meaning on all (relevant) words used in the statement.

Very insightful, Thanks Martin!

Hello Martin: Congratulations on your recent presentation, "African Moods". Yoour work is excellent and adds significantly to our understanding of photography as art, Keep up the very good work . With thanks again, geo chiang rai th

What is fine art photography? Its just a marketing term. It's used to refer to photos taken by people with rich enough contacts to sell them for high prices... and used by photographers attempting to find that same high end market. There's absolutely no unified definition beyond that, but it sure does give a lot of people an excuse to blather on about it at length. Just like any other art medium, some of it sucks, some is good, some is ugly, some is beautiful, some sold to rich friends, some sold to rich strangers, a lot of it just masks money laundering lol

I feel this is really well explain, I try to use my camera to tell a story, plus I use a UV filter to improve the depth of the image.

Photography was "cleared" as an art around the 70s of the twentieth century, at least in the United States. This Mr. Osner should at least study a little more. For the rest he has a crude and childish vision not only of photography but also of art. How sad...

This video is a tremendous gift to the world of photography! I am very much involved with a local gallery and recently realized (in my view) that my work is just glorified snapshots. My recent "wins" in juried and single judge shows have been with images that are NOT common subjects or techniques. Your video gave me an epiphany to step forward in my journey...my father loved photography and my mother painted colorful abstracts...all this percolating inside me...I know just need to let my creativity flow. I can never thank you enough for sharing. BTW, I am 72 and never feel more alive than when I have a camera in my hands.

Very helpful I think I needed to hear some of this! Never rated myself as "real" because I struggle to care about the kit, the technical side I know but don't fixate on... just the image, and sometimes that isn't studio-perfect because perfect didn't feel right. Thought I was just a guy with a camera, maybe so but it might be a good thing still. Thanks, finding all your vids very inspiring and helpful on my spirit.

I must say as a photographer I have never looked at my photography in this way, having said that I never allow myself to be bothered when people fail to say they like them as they often don't, it's just not worth the upset.

Made me feel a lot better about my stuff mate, appreciate this video! Responded to so many of my gnawing questions - not all of them self-made. Hero.

Do you consider all of your work fine art photography? Would using AI as a tool to create photography art I envisioned without even making an image with a camera be considered fine art photography .

Photographers, along with dentists, are the two professions never satisfied with what they do. Every dentist would like to be a doctor and inside every photographer is a painter trying to get out- Pablo Picaso

What a wonderful talk:) helped me ask myself some good questions, it is the beginning as you said at the end of the video, thanks.

You continue to inspire me, thank you!

Beautiful indeed!

Love the work Martin

Thank you for the background video; and, pollock would be proud.

Thank-you for describing this so well I love how you explained emotional attachment to artwork 🖼️ and also what to do - wait on images. I enjoyed your stories both of the tree image and also the train track. Thank you for sharing.

My best photo in my opinion was taken back in 1969. It was of an abandoned hay raking machine, sitting in a field on a hillside. Up until that photo, everything else I'd taken were just "snapshots". This one was different. I felt the difference...other people commented on the difference. Seeing that print was the moment I realized what photography " could be". It changed everything for me. It put me on the path to where I am today as a photographer.

Thanks for the challenge. I just revisited and am surprised there are not more comments. I hope a lot of people joined the challenge! I did the challenge by myself (I did not join the community) and appreciated the chance to try and meet the brief. I enjoy the pics that resulted, and I consider M. Osner as an inspirational artist :)

cool, many tx! ✨👊🏻✨

Thank you Very encouraging

I really got motivated with the explanations and teachings… thank you 🙏

Much appreciated!

Just found this... I miss this live but enjoyed your replay :)

Did you have fun :)

Ugh. I will never like this kind of photography. It's too close to kitsch and really does not tell anything more than "buy me for the living room".

Very inspiring.

Is fine art photography fact or fiction. It is a fact. I've seen it.

Photography lacks the directness of painting and drawing. A layer of technology (the camera) stands between the photographer and the image. This fact is reflected in the prices photographs fetch.

What an inciteful and enjoyable discussion! Thank you for sharing it with us.

“Precision is the enemy of creativity”. Last year, I read John Ruskin’s ‘On Art and Life’ and this was his central thesis. This single concept will free you as an artist of any kind, and indeed, as a human navigating life.

He is a very good storyteller and salesman. But to be honest, I am not sure if he is a very good photographer ...

Martin, I couldn’t agree more and it’s also my approach and my thinking. Well said.

I enjoy the whole process of taking the photographs and editing. I have just started to learn to use shadows.

If I only attempt to create “fine art” then I would miss most of the things happening about me which I enjoy to photograph. I find the happenings as a source of true enjoyment without thinking about creating fine art. Also occasionally those images become fine art in my mind. I do believe displayed fine art in public places are based on someone’s view and deep pockets for I have seen awful work displayed as fine art. In my opinion, it is the individual’s value of their work that really matters and if someone else likes it then that is nice but not necessary. 😊

This was a marvelous video! I thoroughly enjoyed it and I appreciate you for making this video. You have my subscription

Hello Martin. An interesting discourse. In the main I would say it is a good one! There are though a few things that caused me to frown. I hope you will be able to see why. You mentioned something along the lines of art being fiction - well it can be but not essentially so. It can be founded on reality. No less real than photography. I have been drawing and painting all of my life really. I particularly like realism. for that matter I detest the likes of Picasso. To me, his work looks like something he might have done on drugs. That is how it strikes me. That aside I don't think it is appropriate to use him in reference to photography today because things were different in his day. The equipment, the developing, etc. I don't think that can be left out. You mentioned the public deciding what is Fine Art. That made me frown the most. Money does not determine what is and is not Fine Art. If it did then that would place Fine Art strictly in the hands of the filthy rich. The Fine art in an art gallery can be enjoyed by the poor. Maybe a reasonably cheap book might be bought. Today, with the Internet that makes it easier still. Now, a painter can go out in to the country and set about painting a beautiful landscape. The painter can edit and make changes along the way to make a more pleasing picture. A more balanced picture even. A branch might be left out for example. The picture could look as if the tree might topple otherwise. If a person is in the picture they might have a branch growing out of an ear if the painter includes it. The photographer has no choice but to photograph what is there. So yes! There is case for the likes of Photoshop in more ways than one. Whatever the medium - be it photography, painting, drawing or whatever - one thing determines Art. That is the skill required to be able to do. The skill in photography will have differences to drawing and painting, but some things will be shared. Composition being one. Finally, trying to keep this short. Does Art Offend? Definitely! Among my Art books is one in which it is stated the Artist who does not offend will never do anything at all. That is because they will always be seeking to please everybody. However the Artist should not seek to offend. There is a stark difference there.

Please you are an interesting photographer but definitely neither a good photo critic, nor a good photo historian, nor a philosopher or a theoretical instructor. There are numerous errors and confusions in your presentations on the topic and it is highly problematic for a potential audience looking for clarification.

The ‘Britannia dictionary’. What is this? If it is meant to be the Encyclopedia, then its definition is far longer than that. As for Wikipedia anyone and everyone can modify the text, how can it be such a reference except for lazy students. And in fact most of the time this exposé is loose, confused and confusing bla bla. Beware! PS: before defining art photography for others why not 1-learn to spell ‘giclée’ on one’s own website 2-not simply use ‘archival ink-jet’ which is exactly what it is and what more people will understand. Again why be confused and confusing and pontificate about it??? What wasted time, time that would be better spent on your far more interesting photographic work (whether ‘art photography’, ‘’fine art photography’ or simply ‘photography’ (a term that encompasses both areas and far more by the way).

I believe that photography is indeed art, I think the definition of “art” is of itself justifying photography as an art form. I think the gradual access to photography since its invention gave some of those that were immersed in other visual art forms like paintings to dismiss photography simply because anyone could take a photograph so to speak. I believe that many artists sketched scenes to later turn into paintings, say if JMW turner had an iPhone he’d surely have been tempted to capture a scene as a part of his process. I look at a picture by anyone and it affects me, that’s art I feel.

A lot of people mistake minimalism for fine art photography, and it's easy to see why, but the confusion is even more complicated as fine art photography are simply defined as images created in line with the vision of the artist, and in our domain using photography as a medium for creative expression. The goal of fine art photography is to express an idea, a message, or an emotion but it then gets even more confusing as you can alter an image from anything to anything using anything you like to create it For example: filters, long or short exposures, artificial lighting, darkroom, computer, multiple images, distorted lenses, AI, paint, (as a Pro I used to retouch transparencies, in fact we all did). So with all that in mind everyone who ever takes a picture is essentially a fine art photographer - even minimalists!!

Well after listening until the end I’m not sure I could identify what “fine Art photography “ Really is, but enjoyed your talk, and hearing your ideas; Lots to think about, for sure.

What if its not binary? What if it can be both? Was Michelangelo acting as an artist, or a craftsman, or both when he painted the Sixtine Chapel? - Craft requires predictable and repeatable outcomes, art has the freedom to take risks, leave things to chance. - Craft is client driven, art is driven by the creator They don't exclude each other, hence it ends up in the eye of the beholder is more the one or the other, but it sure isn't binary.